Hi, my name is Cheri and welcome to Teen Pathways.
We are talking about depression
and every time we start to discuss depression,
I always think: "How depressing,"
"who wants to hear about a show on depression?",
but they say: "Depression is a common cold. "
in the mental health field, that depression is so
common that most people that you sit down with
are going to say: "I've experienced that,
"I know what you're talking about", and have a story.
So we're going to talk about that today.
I want to first introduce you to the guests that we have,
and these folks are from all over the country.
They have come from different
backgrounds and I want to say thank you very much for sharing
your own experiences with us, and helping us to maybe help
somebody else to explore what they are dealing with.
Can we start with you, who are you?
where did you come from?
My name is Lori Sproat, and I came from Eagle, Idaho.
My name is Paddy McCoy and I started out very early,
coming from my mother that is, [everyone laughs]
okay, I always have to throw something in,
but I go to school in Walla Walla, Washington,
at Walla Walla College.
My name is Cherry Malott and I live in [?], Florida.
Hi, I'm Jackie Ravine and I too, go to
Walla Walla College, though I'm originally from Dayton, Ohio.
My name is Jason Henry, I'm from the blooming metropolis
of Sweet Home, Oregon.
And my name Tim Blackburn and I'm from Eagle, Idaho.
Okay, welcome.
So let's start with, I hear a lot of definitions
of depression, and what do you guys think?
What is it? What is depression?
I think depression is a numbness from a void
that you have, like the loss of a close
relative, or a family member, or a friend that you were
really good friends with, close to.
I think it's also from a lot of pain, a lot of hurt
that you've had, but it causes you
to be numb inside, so you don't react to anything, you may not
even do anything: take care of yourself anymore
or anything like that. It just causes you to block out
everything that surrounds you.
I'm glad you said that, when I experienced depression,
one of the things I thought was really strange was I felt
like I was detached, I couldn't hardly feel myself physically,
so I felt emotionally numb, but I felt like I was
physically numb.
One of the difficult things things, I think, about defining
depression, at least in my understanding,
and the limited experience that I've had with it,
is that it's so hard to say what depression is
because it's, like you said, it's a numbness,
it's what is not, depression is a void,
it's absence,
it's not necessarily sadness or bad feelings,
or bad occurrence, it's not something that is there,
it's an absence, it's a void.
Yeah, isn't that what's so hard to understand about depression
because in my thinking it's on a different level
for each person that experiences depression.
So how can you fit it into a category,
other than saying, generalizing that it's some kind
of a numbness?
I worked at a hospital for a while,
and people would come in depressed
and one of the first things they would say is that
"if one more person tells me to keep my chin up... "
You know? It's like, did you pray about it?
I've prayed about it, I've kept my chin up,
I've done what I can do, so has anybody had that
sense that it's just overwhelming, it's something
that seems to...
It's isolating more than just about anything else.
Having a void, and feeling an absence,
you're not able to make, I wasn't able to make,
connections with people, not even loved ones,
people that were very close, let alone socially speaking.
So, because it's like this inability to make connections
it's an isolating thing, and the more somebody says:
"Here's what you need to do: smile, keep your chin up,"
"the glass is half full, look at yourself in the mirror"
"everyday and say: "I'm good enough,"
"I'm smart enough, people like me. "
It's very isolating, it really is.
That's true, that positive thinking bit.
Yeah! I mean, there is a place for that, it's based
on something.
On the other side of it too, is that the person's that's
trying to relate to the one who is depressed
has a hard time.
Like in high school I looked at depression
and I couldn't figure it out because I was weird
and just happy.
Whoa, what are you doing here?
I know! But I remember saying
that I thought depression was such a waste of time.
It came from my ignorance that I would say that
because I didn't understand.
When I was depressed I thought I was going crazy.
It was like: I can't eat, I can't sleep,
I can't do anything, I'm not happy,
what's wrong with me? Why do I feel this way?
Maybe I'm nuts... I'm just going psycho.
It's a chemical imbalance in the brain caused by genetics,
or some bad thing that's happened to you in your life.
So you're saying for some it may be chemical.
Did you have depression in your family?
Yes. Depression runs in my family.
A couple of my aunts have it and I have some uncles
that have it, and so it's one of those things.
Talk about a family heirloom.
"Let me pass this down. "
You know what's really tough for me too, is that depression
is one that we don't talk about either, so if it runs
in your family like, somebody would come up
and say: "Oh, you have beautiful eyes, just like"
"your grandmother. "
They don't say: "Oh, you have your"
"father's depression. "
That's right. [Everybody laughs]
So that to me would be a harder thing to understand
about yourself as it's hitting you or as you're coming into
a time that you feel like: "Maybe something's hitting me. "
Nobody in your family's going to tell you you're prone
to depression, or you have that genetically and be careful
before you slip in.
I think what you were saying is that there's a time
where that's appropriate, to look in the mirror and say:
"I'm happy. " or "Your ok. ",
but that's at, I think, the earlier part of depression
and as you're coming out of depression,
but in the middle, who's been in the middle?
Sitting there saying: "I don't know how to do"
"this anymore. I don't know how to"
"move anymore. "
I think that's part of what depression is,
feeling like no matter what you do
it just doesn't have a good effect,
it's like you feel useless or your actions
are not accomplishing anything good,
you're not contributing something.
For me personally, depression, when I really
went through it in the early teen years, was a growing thing.
It started out small and it just seemed to go to seed
like weeds in your back yard, and just, kind of, took over
the back yard in my life.
As a little kid I was very rambunctious,
happy go lucky kind of kid, but as I went through crisis
in my life, didn't know how to deal with it,
thought it could be my fault, but then people told me:
"Oh, it's really not your fault. " Well, what is it then?
Then, pretty soon, it's like nothing makes sense anymore,
and the things that are supposed to make sense don't.
For me, that's part of what depression was too,
not understanding, being confused,
and not having any answers,
not having any way to deal with those hurts
and the pain of changes... and stuff.
Exactly. Anyone else?
What do you think Cherry? Depression...
I don't know. I was really depressed
and I had a lot of problems because my depression
started with losing my grandpa when I was 8 years old,
and then it got worse later on because about a year later
I found out that my dad had cancer,
and these were people that I really loved,
and here they're sick and dying and it was really hard.
I remember you told me before that you were really close
to your grandfather and you spent a lot of time
with him over at his house.
It was like, whenever I had a problem at school,
like with a friend or something, I could go there and be with him
and he would always make me laugh and stuff,
but then he was just gone and I had nobody
for a little bit. I did, but I didn't realize it.
What was your dad's cancer? What was that about?
Well, he has a cancerous brain tumor and they found
that out about a year later after my grandpa died
and that was scary because he had to have
brain surgeries and he almost died a couple of times.
It was really scary because I loved him,
and he's not the same man he used to be,
so it's hard, but at least he's still alive.
They cut out a portion of his brain, right?
Yeah.
Like the size of a fist.
Yeah.
So there's a lot of changes, so what'd you do?
Because I listened to you and I'm thinking:
"How would I deal with that at 8 years old, 9 years old,"
"10 years old?" When you went into a depression,
what did your depression look like?
I just felt like I wasn't as good
as anybody else, everybody was better than me,
I was just worthless. I didn't feel good about myself,
life was just... blah.
I just...kind of...I don't know.
In those situations some of you that have
experienced it more severely than some of us who have been
blessed to not have to experience it so deeply,
what do you seek, or need,
or what can outside people offer?
We can't make it better.
There are things like prayer and/or medication,
and some real personal introspection and self discovery
that may lend to curing it, or dealing with it,
I guess is a better way of putting it,
what can other people in your lives,
what can we watch for and what can we offer?
One thing you need to watch for is lots of energy,
lots of appetite, just lots of personality,
a person who's really really aggravated all the time,
every little thing makes them mad,
just little things like that, just obvious things,
and a person that wants to be alone a lot of the time,
some people are moody, but people usually
with depression are moody, they could be happy one minute
and then just bawling their eyes out the next.
So you just have to watch for things like that.
For me, as a guy, they say that guys tend to be
"fix it" orientated, I just want to fix the problem,
but there are personality types that just want to fix
the problem.
Depression, as with many other things, might be a lifetime
struggle.
All of us have struggles that we'll probably struggle
with our whole lives, and by God's grace
we can keep having victory over that thing,
but we need to realize that depression for some people
is one of those life-long struggles
and it may not be something that we can fix right away.
For me, something that somebody could probably do that would
help me, is just to say: "I accept you just how you are,"
"you may be depressed, but I still care about you,"
"and maybe we can't just fix this like that,"
"but we're going to work through it. "
You know what helped me?
One time I remember reading through the Bible
and I read the story of David and his depression for a year.
It was like all of a sudden I said: "Here's somebody"
"that is ranting and raving and saying"
"my pillow was soaked at night, I feel like my bones"
"are dried up. It seems like I can't even"
"move or breath or anything. "
I was so grateful to see that in Psalms later on,
where he talks about: "And I love you Lord. "
"Thank you for giving me back my life,"
"and thank you for filling me with joy. "
And all of a sudden I got hope that there are other people
that have been depressed.
With David too, when I got into my depression,
all of a sudden everything looked dark.
It was like I was going:
"Everything looks dark, and the world looks dark,"
"and the president's going to court,"
"and some kid just walked into a school yard a shot"
"these classrooms. " And all of a sudden not only my own sadness
and my own loss, but it seemed like everything
was happening everywhere, and the only hope I got,
the only hope I got was to say there are promises in the Bible,
there are promises of heaven, there are promises of all that
that I can somehow hold on to when I'm feeling like I can't
hold on to anything else.
That reminds me...
Yeah, we actually have a scene that talks about...
it's a dialogue I guess,
part of it has to do with current world view
and maybe a world view that someone who's depressed
may have, or just observations.
Then the other side of it is the hopeful perspective
of what may very well be waiting for us,
some of the promises that the Bible offers.
Can you do that?
What I believe is that sometimes with some struggles
that the hope is that this is not our home.
So, can you do that?
Yeah, we'd love to, thank you.
It's pretty heavy...
...but it is depression we're talking about.
Guess it can't very well be farcical, can it?
Okay... [both clear their throats].
Sometimes I wish I could cease to exist.
It would be my... conscientious objection against society.
It's this... this place, Earth in general, it just isn't
right for me.
Come to think of it, it isn't right for you either.
You see, we're not supposed to be here.
We were created perfect.
My name is Ellen. Ellen White,
and my friends, many years ago,
I saw a vision of our home to be in the New Earth,
with Jesus at our head, we descended out of heaven
from the great city, down to this Earth
and there was a mighty plain, and then we looked up
and saw the great city coming down from God
out of heaven and it settled on the place where we stood.
But we walked outside of the city to see
the glories that lay there, and there I saw many houses
made of silver, which were to be inhabited
by the saints, and in each was a golden shelf.
I watched as many of the saints walked in to the houses,
took off their glittering crowns
and laid them on the golden shelf,
and walked out of the houses to a field nearby.
A light shone about their heads as they were continuously
offering praise to God.
I went to Chicago once, you know what the welcoming
side is as you're driving into the city?
It's the factories.
They're pouring tones of thick, black, billowing smoke
into the air.
There's just something wrong about living in a society
where a building has the capacity to turn
day into night time.
I don't know, for all I know, it's the same in New York
and Los Angeles too, you know?
It just isn't right.
Then I saw many flowers. And as I plucked the flowers,
I cried out: "These will never fade. "
And then there was a field of grass, tall grass,
and it was a living green.
It had the appearance of silver and gold as it waved proudly
to the glory of King Jesus.
Then we came to another field where there were many beasts,
the lion and the lamb, the leopard and the wolf,
all lay together in perfect harmony.
And they followed peaceably after us as we passed through,
and we came to a wood next,
but not like our woods: dark, dirty. No!
But all over, light and beautiful,
with the trees waving to and fro, but we passed
through the wood, for we were on our way to Mt. Zion.
Next I saw a company of others who were also gazing
at the wonders of this place.
As we greeted them, I asked Jesus who they were.
For I noticed that their robes were pure white,
and their garments had red as a border around them,
and their crowns were brilliant.
When I asked Jesus who they were, He said
they were martyrs who had been slain for Him.
With them was an innumerable company of little ones.
Things have gotten way out of hand.
There's just something wrong about living in a society
where 1 out of 3 women are raped every year.
These women are our wives, our sisters, our mothers,
our daughters and our girlfriends.
And kids...
Every year 3 million children are abused.
And those are only the cases that are reported.
Every day they're having their souls ripped
out of their weak, weak grasp,
while someone they look up to abuses them.
Mt. Zion was just ahead and there was a temple on it.
And around it were 7 other mountains
on which grew roses and lilies.
I watched as the little ones climbed, or if they so chose,
used their little wings to fly to the top
of the mountains, and pluck the never fading flowers.
The beauties I there saw, I can not describe.
Oh, that I could speak in the language of Canaan,
and then perhaps I could tell just a little
of the glory of the better place.
Jesus walked ahead of us into the city.
But soon we heard His lovely voice calling out to us:
"Come in my people, to sup, for you have come"
"through great tribulation, you have suffered,"
"but you have done My will, come in, for I will gird Myself"
"and I will serve you. "
As I went into the city, I saw a table of pure silver
which extended many miles in length, and yet my eyes
could pass over it.
And on that table there was the fruit of the tree
of life, the manna,
and the figs, and the almonds, and many other
kinds of fruit.
Nobody belongs here,
but here we are.
We think and speak and laugh and sing and do things of all
kinds on purpose.
We do all these things because we don't belong here.
This is not our home.
Look around you, this is a cave.
What are we doing in a cave?
We're meant to be with the angels.
What are we doing in these bodies?
For some reason, we're trying so hard,
helplessly, to pretend that we are in them
and that we belong in them.
And that we are here, and that we belong here.
I asked Jesus if I could eat of the fruit,
but He said "No. "
"For those who eat of the fruit of this land go back to Earth"
"no more. But soon," He said,
"if faithful, you will both,"
"eat of the fruit of the tree of life, and drink"
"of the water of the fountain. But now you must go back"
"and relate to others what I have shown you. "
And then an angel bore me gently downward
to this dark word.
Sometimes I wish I could stand on the edge
of the universe.
And if I could, I'd get out there and I'd shout:
"The night shift is over, it's time to go home. "
Nobody belongs here.
I mean, it's somewhere...
...somehow...
there's a beauty to be found in the acceptance
of the struggle.
Sometimes I think I can bear it here no longer.
The things of Earth are very dreary to me.
I am very lonely here,
for I have seen a better land.
Oh that I had the wings of a dove
and then I would fly away
and be at rest.
Amen.
I think of that, and I think it's an incredible
hope for me to know that there's heaven.
There are times that I look around
and most of my family are dying and they're drug addicts
and alcoholics, and even the people
that aren't from that kind of background, have grandfathers
who die, I think it's a sad thing
and to be able to know that this is not our home,
that we have a place, that Jesus is waiting for us,
it's just a matter of time. Does that help anybody?
Just the feeling that no matter how hard we try,
we are not going to be able to fit here,
that's somewhat comforting.
To me, I think about heaven,
I look around our world,
and I see the tears, and the pain that's suffered,
people losing loved one, or people having chemical
imbalances that are so hard to control and get over.
I keep thinking about the end of the Bible
when in the last chapters it talks about heaven,
and it talks about what's going to happen,
and it paints this picture of God
coming down and touching your cheek and wiping
away every one of those tears that you ever shed.
It is the awesomest picture that I ever imagined in my life.
Isn't that a great thing?
That makes me feel like I want to tell somebody,
I want to tell somebody that even through the sadness,
that even through all that stuff that you know what?
This is not our home, and we have promises of joy now,
but also we have hope,
which a lot of people don't have.
You know Jason, I heard you sing a song that is
similar to the thing
that they just acted out for us.
Uh-huh, it's a song that was actually taken
partly from the vision that Jackie related to us.
I don't remember the name of the guy that wrote it,
but it's a really good song.
Will you play it for us?
Yeah, I'd love to play it.
I want to go to heaven, pick a never-fading flower
from the mountains overlooking
the temple of my God.
I want to go to heaven,
where all is bright and glory,
how I long to be with Jesus,
how I long to be with God.
Sometimes I think
I can stay here no longer.
I feel very lonely here
for I have seen a better land.
Oh, that I had wings like a dove
then would I fly away and be at rest.
I want to go to heaven.
I want to hear the voice of Jesus.
"You have washed your robes in My blood,"
"and stood stiffly for my truth. "
And when I get to heaven
I'll cast my crown at Jesus' feet.
I want to praise His name forever,
He has done so much for me.
Sometimes I think
I can't stay here any longer,
I feel very lonely here, for I have seen a better land.
Oh, that I had wings like a dove
then would I fly away
and be at rest.
Oh, that I had wings like a dove
then would I fly away
and be at rest.
Fly away.
Wow. That's great. Beautiful.
Thank you very much for sharing your stories about depression
and it's really tough to share that because
it reminds us of the sadness.
It's more fun to talk about the joy, the peace
you found in Christ, and I know each one of us
has found that, which is a good thing.
Please remember that no matter what you're feeling,
no matter what you see in this world that is painful,
is that we were never meant to be here.
We were never meant to experience death,
we were never meant to lose people we love.
God says: "Just look to me, put everything away"
"that you think you're suppose to discover here, and just look"
"to Me and ask Me: What is it about this world"
"that I need to know? And what is it about the next"
"world that I need to know in order to give me hope?"
I remember a time in my life that I was depressed.
I got all these self-help books, I got tones of them.
What I discovered is that they weren't doing me any good,
and the only good I ever got was if I turned it over to God
and said: "Please, give me hope, take this away. "
And He did.
I'd like to end with Psalms 30:5 and it says,
remember one thing, that
"weeping may remain for a night, but rejoicing comes
in the morning." So remember, joy comes in the morning.
Thanks for joining us on Teen Pathways,
and we'll see you next time. [Music for Credits]