Teen Pathways
Hello!
Hi guys!
Tim especially you're going to love this topic.
Today qwe're going to talk about "Pschichics or pszichos".
You decide. The reason we chose this, it seems like
no matter where I go throughout the country,
if I go to a youth ralley or talk to a youth group
or go to a school, this seems like this is always the issue.
The issue comes up with why witches or Wicca,
or horoscopes or numerality getting the cards.
There's even a place on the internet that you can go
and get your cards read. And we want to cover what's
all about and how safe is that. But before we get into the show
I want to introduce you to the guests that we have
the hosts that we have, they're from all over the place
different backgrounds, but each person on this Saturday
has some history with this topic. And so can we start with you?
Yeah, I'm Tim Backburn from Eagle, Idaho.
My name is Rachel Crocker and I'm from Willamina, Oregon.
My name is Gavin Sailsbery and I'm from Yakima, Washington.
My Name is Mercy Brooklyn I'm from Lafayette, Oregon.
My name is Jackie Ravine and I'm a student at Walla Walla College.
My name is Paddy McCoy, I'm also a student at Walla Walla
College.
Great. Thank you for joining us and I'm going to start right
off with you, Tim, if that's ok, because I know your history
and I know that you can explain to us what is witchcraft.
What is Wicca? What is it that you, I mean do you have to learn
something when you get into that and how do you get into that?
And can you tell us a little bit about where you came from?
I mean, did you come from a Christian home and how you got
into it and what you learned about?
Ok. I came from a very Christian home, born and raised
in a Christian home. And just basically I got involved with
some friends who were into it and it kind of started from there
One thing that like white magic and stuff is what they say
is white magic is power for good and you basically
just kind of, if you really are into it,
you can go to like bookstores, go on the internet,
you can go anywhere.
I have to say, I have to interrupt in that. When they
say power for good, is that what the draw is that somebody tells
you that this is not an evil thing, this is actually,
you're doing something that's really good.
Yeah, the no. 1 rule of Wicca is if there shall no harm
do it that will. and that just basically says if we don't
harm anyone, do whatever you want, basically.
So it's just basically power for good.
Power for good over evil.
And so what is it when you got reading material,
or when you start researching, what kind of material did you
have to get?
Just basic books on like magic, or like white magic,
or Wicca or anything like that. You can get it anywhere.
Somebody told me that they actually went out like satanic
Bibles and different things. Is that available?
I went to just down the bookstores in Boysee, Idaho,
and I just picked one up and you can get it anywhere
in any bookstore and it's amazing.
And this is, I guess the new crave, because
you have Wicca and everything involved in nature,
and everything in nature involves itself
nature that's good, stuff like that.
And it's not. And that's so why satan's giving us all.
is that this is power for good it's not, it's power for evil.
It's just really disguised.
It seems like such an easy trap to fall into,
that sort of sideline experience that I've had with it,
has been indirectly through my parents. My father is
a proffessional magician, and very good at what he does,
a great illusionist. There was a time years ago,
when he looked for some more powerful illusions,
than just what he had in his show, and in his little bag
of tricks and so it wasn't necessarily that he was looking
to do good for humanity. That was, certainly made it
appealing also, or that he was just self seeking in wanting
to get, went back an ex girlfriend or anything like that.
Those are things that you can also find for too,
but for him, he was purely proffessionally endeavoured
that he went on and he began to study white magic
and that's began a journey that led to a lot of turmoil
for he and my mother and my brother and I when we were
babies and children.
I personally, because I can relate to that,
personally I was feeling very powerless at one time in my
life and I was feeling powerless I didn't belong and I really
wanted badly to feel connected. And so someone gave me
a book and said: oh this is an incredible book
and I talked about it. It talked about the power that
we are connected from generation to generation
and those kind of these cosmic psychic connection
and all that kind of stuff and so I started to read this
book and I started to get into it and I remember just feeling
almost seduced. It was like this kind of, this all the sudden
I am connected with all women from every generation
and I have all knowlege from every generation,
and then there was a point where I was reading it
that God almost out loud told me what satan had told Eve in the
garden. You'll know everything. And I thought, all the sudden
I just jumped back and I thought oh, no, so this is, I thought
this was like New Age and it's like no, no, no,
this is old stuff. And did you find that, Tim, or anybody,
did you find that there's a point when you were getting into
something and then all the sudden spiritually
God said: this is scary stuff?
Yeah. I was reading a book on Wicca well spells,
and I read the introduction and the introduction said:
if you put a lovespell on someone you're already
in love, that they'll accidently die or kill themselves.
And it's like right there, you're saying:
wow! You're obviously not in the right place.
That doesn't sound too good.
It doesn't sound too good and anything that comes from
God, God would not kill a single person.
Because God is all love.
It's interesting that you mentioned Wicca love spells,
because my mother, after she and my father were separated,
continued to use white magic a little bit and one of my
earliest memories was when I was smaller than I am now,
obviously long time ago, it's true.
I was propably about 4 and we were in our kitchen
and it was my mom and my brother and I. She had just recently
had a split from her boyfriend who had been very good to her
and to my brother and I. And she wanted desperately to get
him back. And so we were in our kitchen,
and on the stove was this, like little pot of stuff
and it had some of his hair and woodstuff.
And she gave each my brother and I a black candle
and she one, too, and she had us wave it over this pot
and say this chant with her. And she said when we were done,
we're going to have pizza. And we were like:
ok, cool! So we were doing this and then when we finished
blew out the candles, turned off the oven,
turned around then go across the kitchen,
and get our pizza and my and my brother fell down
and I looked up to my mom and he looked at me and he said:
something has got my legs something won't let me go, mom,
and he was maybe 5 or 6, something won't let me go,
and he started crying and my mom reached over and grabbed him
and he was fine as soon as she touched him.
And this which started out to be and endeavoured to get
the whole point of the spell was to get her boyfriend back
he was so good to us. And ended up being a very scary thing
for my brother. And the thing is it worked.
Her boyfriend came back and when her boyfriend came back,
one of the first thing that he did, was an anger one time
he had never reached out and touched us in anger.
But in anger he grabbed my brother, Bobby,
who seemed to be the body in devil about this great stuff
that my mom was doing, by the ear and lifted
him up and shook him in bed. And so this witch starts out
being for such a seemingly good or selfless endeavour,
to have a nice relationship and maybe build a family
for my mother and her kids, rot evil.
It's almost like, to me the sense I get, was saying
you can have him back at the cost of your son.
Oh, yeah.
One of the most interesting things to me about the topic
today is that I have a very close family member
to me that is very curious about all this things
and exploring these things and reading up and all of this
type of stuff and it just seems to me that it is such a subtle
thing to begin with that people get involved with it
it it's subtletess that you can go along with this,
a little bit of that, I mean like a love spell.
What really seems so harmless about that if we look on
the television screen in moovies on our newspapers
and all these type of things, we see signs of this stuf
everywhere. I mean I can remember watching starwars.
when I was little and going home and just wishing I can find
some way to like moove things. And thinking how cool
that'd be and so it seems like the curiosity is sparkled
in such a subtle way and you get into it and I don't know
if you guys want to respond to this in your personal
experience, because it seems like the subtleness happens
and satan gets you through the door.
And then gets you deeper and deeper ubtill you don't feel
like you can ever get out.
I've had experiences with that and it's like you start
and then pretty soon you forget everything good.
everything kind, everything with love, and you just can't remember
and in one situation I couldn't remember the name Jesus.
I tried and I tried and I couldn't remember how to pray,
and it was just this unbelievable feeling of being frightened,
words couldn't describe, even at the time, and I wasn't afraid
of phisical power, it was purely emotional.
My body was fine, I was oblivious to the fact that
whatever was happening to my body, but my mind
it was so trapped, and I found a text in the Bible,
it's Matthew 7:15 and it speaks about false prophets
in shheep's clothing, but really are raving wolves.
It will wrip you up.
Just tear the shreds. And that was really powerful,
and then there was another really good scripture,
it was in 1 John 4:1 and it talks about: "Believe not every
spirit but try the spirits, whether they are of God,
because many false prophets are in the world. "
You know what I like? What i think is so powerful
about that, Gavin? It's the fact that I have come from such a
I think, a dark background and now that I look around,
I think that that is subtle, we get pulled away so subtely
and satan is real, the demonic activity is real,
and they are angry. The Bible says satan is like a roaring
lion and he looks around to see who he can devour
and we just sometimes have no idea of the amount of the
activity that's around us and we just kind of whistle
through life. And that scares me. It scares me so much that I think
that we should know what we're up against.
The Bible says like in Ephesians 6:12. Can I read it?
yeah.
Ok. It says: "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
but against principalities, against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places. "
And it's not a battle of blood and flesh,
it's a battle of powerful spirits,
the ones that are very powerful. More then we can even comprehend.
Exactly. And we're talking of major things.
There's also small things that we get involved in.
Yeah, you talk about the subtlety I mean, not long ago I was
reading books like, series of books and they seem so
innocent like ok, there's is a wampire,
you don't think that that's going to affect you.
But sometimes when you read it, you just get thinking:
oh, maybe there are people like that out there,
and maybe this really can happen, maybe this magic would really
work, and you just think: maybe if I try it, it would
work. And it's scary, because my mom had caught me reading
them, I would have, every single book in the series try it myself.
Because it was just like kind of grip on me and my mom says
satan does anything to open the door for you,
to go, to be satanic andstuff.
Exactly. and he let's it work. He'll let it work to get you
sucked in.
And a thing is, too, that satan knows the type of things
you to like, he can get you in something like that.
It's not like he's going to jump out: I'm satan.
Because you take off. You freek out.
So it's going to be something like through books.
Through the moovies you watch it's going to spark your
curiosity and it sets you down that path.
So we've had ann experience with satan a little bit.
Because we were kind of talking when, and we were both kind of
like, because we were both pretty new in Christianity,
with god and our relationship, and because, I think, because
I read the satanic Bible and satan has had such a grip in my
life, that he must have spoken through Gavin,
because it was amazing and I know Gavin wasn't speaking,
because he started talking about how satan has a grip on him,
how satan's hand is directing him right now,
and how, like moments like these if he had a gun,
he brought brains out and stuff like that,
and it's not Gavin, because I know Gavin,
very well. And that was not Gavin speaking. That was someone else.
I couldn't remember anything. I tried and I tried
And I couldn't remember Jesus' name.
And that in itself, and I tried and I couldn't bring
myself to pray either. And I could actually see it
and the thing I remember most, is, there was 3 footfingers.
And there was questioning me. And it wasn't physically or
spiritually, that I was telling that it was crashing me.
And I can't fight back. and it also blocked me,
and I couldn't pray to God. I felt so helpless,
alone and scared, you have no idea.
And I guess that that's what I want to say too,
because I've had an experience, a similar experience to that
when I was coiming out of all my stuff,
is that I felt that that I had been on satan's
ground, I've been on that and they were very angry
that all the sudde I was going in a direction,
that I was helpful. And so when you talk about fear,
this is a real experience that, it's a very real experience,
would you have believed that any point, when you started
getting into stepping out of, what I think, is safety around
God and I know that kind of protection around God,
when you started stepping out, would you have thought,
that you would be in a place that was so dangerous
and so feaerful?
Oh, no. The only way I can describe it, is like,
God's power has been over me. His veil of love has been
over me my whole entire life. And then, I just, I emotionally
wasn't attached to God that moment, and I kind of turned
my back on. I can't really say that I did it on purpose.
It just happened. I felt sure of being worried with Him,
and He kind of lifted His veil, so I could see what was out
there. and it just frightened me. And He said: ok, look,
just look! And He didn't take controll of my body or
anything, it was just, I saw how I spiritually could
be. The pottential weaknesses and then He covered me back
up as soon as I was in daylight again.
Incredible! And it's so powerful, I want to say that
there's one thing that I read in the Bible that it shocked me.
It says: most of the time we're led away,
by our lust and by our curiosity, it's like all the sudden nobody
is going to come and say: you know what?
I'm just going to grab you and I'm not going to let you go.
Although that happens. But most of the time what happens
is, we see something over here and say:
wow! That looks fun! That looks exciting!
I want to try that.
I'd like to have that power. That is cool!
And one thing about getting into witchcraft and that kind
of thing, is when you see that your power has scared someone,
like you were talking, Tim, one time that you had like wudu
dalls, and actually could use those and that's scary to people.
So, all the sudden there's power in that.
and I think that we naturally, want that at times.
and we get lead away so slowly from that. Just like Eve,
when Eve wanted the knowlege, she was like at the tree,
and satan says, Genesis, the first part of the Bible,
Eve says: I want to know everything,
I want to be like God. And that's what satan says:
you can be like God if you do this. I give you power that is
unbelievable if you just follow me.
sometimes you, the reason I was reading those books,
because I was bored, I had nothing to do. sometimes
you just do it, because there's nothing else to do.
And you feel like: wow! Maybe if I do this, it'll bring excitement
into my life.
I think that a big reason, too, is that we're not walking
spiritually towatrds God, and it leaves room for them
to fall behind.
a good point!
If they're not moving forward, they're passed up.
We often, I'm a Christian, and because I'm a Christian,
I believe in god's faithfulness. I believe that I am anchored
to his throne and that He is always faithfully with me.
But it's so easy to forget and i do believe that satan is
just as faithful in his pursuit as God is. God wants me
and satan wants me nearly as much as God does.
And so it's important for me to remember like
like Gavin had mentioned, that if we're standing still,
then we're open to being taken by whatever comes or whatever is
offered to us. Especially being drawn out by our own desires.
By our own temptations. And so I hope that
I challenge myself and the whole of us, actually, to remember
that satan is just as faithful in his pursuit of us as God is.
Yeah. And even little kids, they're just kind of growing up
and if their parents are teaching them about God,
all of the moovies that there are out for the little kids,
it's like a lightning, that's magic,
there's the little mermaid, everything ha magic in it.
And it's like so appealing to them that i've head friends
that just that grew up in a totally Christian home,
and all of a sudden, it's just like this desire to want to do
more. and it's for the wrong side, for the wrong purpose,
but I mean, it's just like they've grown up their whole
life without even recognizing it
I never thought of that, but it's so exciting and so enchanting
I watched those moovies with my daughterwho is a little kid,
and it is enchanting, but I never thought of all the sudden
the fantasies, the imagery that you keep in your head.
Yeah, but it's not like when you sit down and you kind of go:
oh, I know it's wanting me bad, it's more of like, it's in the
back of your mind the whole time and you've grown up with that.
So you don't actually, consciously go:
Oh, I want to be like the person in the Little mermaid,
or something like this. It's just like in the back of your mind
you're going: oh, I know, I saw that somewhere.
So, it will be fun to try or something like this.
Exactly.
It becomes familiar. They're callious to it and what you see
in the real world, you just kind of blow it off, like: oh, you
know, like that's just the way things go.
Because after so long, something doesn't bother you anymore.
You see people, you see fights all the time, it doesn't bother
doesn't you. And you see witchcraft all the time, after
a while it doesn't bother you. like some people they are
swearing a lot, and then they don't even notice when they do
it. They become callous to it. And that's when he can plant
seed in there, and then you're oblivious to the fact
is going to ruin you, because you're so callous to it.
And the thing about that is, is that because of that,
because we watch these moovies, and we read these newspapers,
and we see our horoscopes and whatever it is,
we begin to think that: well, ok, I see evil so much around me.
Evil's so real that some people will say: I guess there must be
a God, the opposite must be true. But I can't see that.
I can only see the evil stuff that's around me, because that's
everywhere.
Yeah. I met a friend, she lived in the same town I did,
and at the time I was kind of spiritually lacking something,
it's like I knew God, He was my friend,
but it's like I was kind of going: what's this?
I was kind of going like something is wrong.
And I met this girl, she was just like, I just looked up to
her, she was at least 4 years older than me, and she was just
like the perfect girl, she was so beautiful and I thought
like the perfect model, but but she was just totally into
witchcraft, I mean, she could move things with her mind,
and when I was in that room with her,
I could feel God reaching out to me, but I just kind of went
no, I want to do this, and that same weekend when I went
away, like 2 and half miles aeay, I was visiting someone,
and that night, they were totally Ike non God fearing family
and that night I had watched a show that was just like,
it was kind of freeky, it had to do with, like witchcraft,
but in the middle of the night I just woke up and my whole
body was shaking and I couldn't controll it.
And I could feel, it was like I could feel something grabbing
me, it was like so physical and I was just screaming for
God, literally, I was just verbally yelling out to God,
I couldn't go to sleep the whole night, but after that I was like
no way. God is real and I was like..
One of those like: I got the point,never let me go.
Cheri, there's this Scripture in the Gospel, according to Luke,
26 and this is dealing with those who do it for popularity,
or to make a name for themseves. Like a magician, like you father
reminded me of, it says: "Woe unto you, when all men
shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false
prophets. "
It's kind of, it's a vicious circle.
I think that, the thing that's so amazing, is that we have
no idea of the spiritual warfare that is going on around us.
If we could jump into spiritual site or perception,
and see the satan's angels working and God's angels working
and that whole battle going on and be amazing.
We just can't fall on those things, but what I think is one
of the most important things to remember,
as we think about just being surrounded by this evil,
and whatever way it is, whether we're in a room,
or we're just in a situation. at the end of Romans 8
it has this saying by Paul, it says: "For I am convinced
that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able
to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus
our Lord. "
That's incredible! Also Revelations 20 talks about
that at the end of this whole thing,
when the whole thing is over, and satan is going to be
destroyed, then we're going to have new earth and all that,
and when I was reading one time I was afraid, because I heard
all these stories about witchcraft and demons
and all that stuff, so I was reading all that
and I read Revelations 21 it says that at the end of the
whole thing, satan's down, he's going to be bound,
enchained and God sends one angel
down from heaven to do that. And I said: wait!
This is the end of his gig, I mean his gig is up
and God sends one angel, and I have one angel with me
all the time, more during certain activities,
so one all the time, so I always believed that is like this
cosmic David Copperfield, he is an illusionist
and he tries to jump in front of us and says:
you know what? I have power over you.
Complete power over you. I could destroy you
like that. And it's a lie. It's a total lie, because
God says: you know what? That is my child.
You can't even touch him. Unless he gives you permission.
Because, I was reading in ephesians,
from 13, it talks about: "Wherefore take unto you the
whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the
evil day, and having done all, to stand,
I'm not going to read it all, but it talks about "cure
ourselves with truth, and having a best payed righteousness,
and it says: on my feet have the gospel of peace,
and having a shield of faith, and it says
to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
and you have a helmet of salvation,
and a sword of the spirit which is the Word of God.
And these are tools that he gives us to fight it back.
And with all that he's just describing in the Bible,
you're invincible, no part of you is left open.
And you can fight back too. With the Word.
So we have covered and thanks for sharing,
this has been an incredible show, I wish we had hours
for this one. We've covered a lot of things,
we've covered how you get led away, we've covered the fact
that satan is after us, the demons are after us,
like roaring lions, ready to devour and wrip us up.
But the most exciting thing that we've covered,
is that God is faithful. God is more powerful than satan.
When Christ out at the cross say: power has gone and it's
done and anything that we buy from that point on,
is something that he convinces us of and he's a liar.
I mean, it says in the Bible he's a liar, so know the Bible,
know that you can put on the protection of God.
Know that you can ask God in any given point.
Please protect me. Please come in, I am afraid right now.
And that he is right there and just trust God.
And be aware of what you watch, or what you put
in your mind. Thanks and see you next time!